Gatka

[AbdUllah]

This is a reposting of a post i have just made on another site, i hope you all do not mind if i share it with you, and maybe you can all contribute your own opinions and thoughts on the matter.... BarakAllah feek

Salamat pesilatan
Whilst this is not strictly a form of silat or indeed a South East Asian martial art AT ALL, have any of you seen this amazing art before?
This art is fast, strong, and seems very difficult to fight. There is record that in the sikh holiest site of the golden temple in amritsar, 4 Gatka players were posted on the door and successfully held off thousands of hindu soldiers, so much so that they could not get within 10 metres of the door.
For those of you that do not know it i shall post 2 videos from the ever so hand youtube.com:
1) short version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C54ie5mCLU&mode=related&search=
2) or those of you that have 12 minutes can watch the long version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C54ie5mCLU&mode=related&search=

What does everybody think of this martial art? Nice eh? 

Hormat
AbdUllah

[Aikijutsu]

Asalaam Aleikum,

Thank you for posting those clips, they are very interesting.  However, I feel that you have asked an inappropriate question.  The pendekars on this forum are gentlemen.  You should not ask them to publicly critique the Art of a non-pesilat, or ask them to divulge fighting strategies.  Plus, remember what I told you in the Cimande Macan Guling thread about judging something by videos.  I'm sure that the pendekars here would just as soon present their compliments to the gatka player than take an adversarial view.

I recommend that you spend some time studying the inner aspect of silat which includes adat and hormat, and don't worry about all this fighting type talk.  That is an issue for Sanders, whose superior 'art' has been tested in bloody combat for 100's of years by generations of guru penglima warrior teachers (wearing Balinese headwraps) to be concerned with.

I hope you get my meaning.

Salaam,

Aikijutsu

[AbdUllah]

Yea bro i understand

Actually it was an act of appreciation that led me to starting this thread, not to criticise it. I thought it seems very strong and this led to me wondering if anyone could suggest a way to defend one's self. But i fully understand what you are saying and maybe in retrospect i could have phrased the question different. Then again (and i am saying this respectfully), if someone comes at me using this art and they are looking to hurt me, i can not tell them "I am sorry my dear brother, but i was too much of a gentleman to consider possible defence techniques to your art. I am afraid you are just going to have to stop attacking me." Because doing such is not very likely to help my survival chances. It MAY, but it is just not very likely.

That said, you are right, i should not have asked publicly.

People can still answer the first question though (i.e. does this art appeal to you individually, there is no harm in someone saying whether they think this art would suit them), and i will edit the post to get rid of the second question.

Peace all

[Gorka]

Selamat pesilatan,

Gatka ! I really like this art even if I don't know much about it.
Full respect for Gatka 
traditional, spiritual, weapons, flow.... all what I like 

About how to protect myself in front of this kind of fighter,
my strategy would be to come in very short distance.
Gatka seems to use a lot of long range technics
but less of short range so may be this could work.
But, again, I really don't know much about Gatka except the videos that I saw.

Wassalam
Gorka

[moneef]

Salaams Abdullah,

Gatka looks very similar to Kalari payit, the indian generic martial art. In fact I wonder if it is a branch off it.

Has anyone else seen Kalari?

regards Mo

[AbdUllah]

em yea people have said that and it probably IS related to kalari payit, because i think they are both descended from Shaster Vidiya (the ancient vedic military/martial art).
I havent been able to find any information on Shastar Vidiya though. Gatka is actually quite a new art in so far as it was created by sikh soldiers in the british army as a way to keep up their martial arts training without giving away all their martial arts secrets to the British. The result is now they have forgotten most of shastar vidiya and only practice gatka (or so it appears).

Peace bro moneef

[Gajah]

I saw a demo of Gatka a few years back, and have to say it was impressive .

I have also seen kalaripayatt in India. It is a Keralan art from Southern India so I have no idea if it influenced Gatka in the Punjab. I suspect it wouldn't to a great degree, but I may be wrong. I know in the past kalaripayatt was only practised in Kerala and was looked upon as an expression of Keralan identity.

[dsbasuki]

I thought it seems very strong and this led to me wondering if anyone could suggest a way to defend one's self.

Salam...
Nowadays, fighting is not as easy as not so long time ago. I am not sure about the law in your country, but as far as I know, in Malaysia and Indonesia, carrying edge weapon is considered unlawful, especially those long swords. It is very unlikely that in our time right now we will have to fight against a good martial artist (any style) in a street fighting. Why? Because the real master usually is very humble and doesn't want to fight. The one who is still "green" that usually likes to fight, trying to prove to others that he is "good".

But for the sake of discussion and no mean to disrespect those Gatka practitioners, my answer is simple one: use slingshot! End of story. Otherwise... Run as fast as you can! It's not an act of cowardice but a wise one. Is your life worth fighting for? Or, you can try to ask them not to use their weapons and fight using fists and kicks. See if they agree.... 

Then again (and i am saying this respectfully), if someone comes at me using this art and they are looking to hurt me, i can not tell them "I am sorry my dear brother, but i was too much of a gentleman to consider possible defence techniques to your art. I am afraid you are just going to have to stop attacking me." Because doing such is not very likely to help my survival chances. It MAY, but it is just not very likely.

The question is why someone with that kind of skill wants to attack you (especially if you are unarmed)? Did you do something to piss him off that bad? I don't think a normal person would do such thing to others. That's why, in silat, we have to train the "olah rasa" aspect, so we will have good manners. I believe, with good manners, we could avoid fighting. I'm not sure whether you know this or not, that silat could be meant as "silaturahmi" (if you don't know, try to find out yourself the meaning of silaturahmi). 

May peace be with you.
Salam....

[AbdUllah]

lol.. bro did you ever meet one of these guys before?
many are humble, but then again many are not... just like all martial arts.
Martial arts is, amongst other things, the art of survival from physical attack.
If this is not the case then bro please stop physical training in silat and just sit reading books all day.
DEFINATELY one should try and get out of a violent confrontation at all costs, and certainly one should endevour not to provoke attack at all costs through humility and respect... but the reality is that physical confrontation often DOES occur, regardless of the adaab of the victim.

As nice as your sentiments are, and as good as they are as a general rule to follow in life, they are not ALL encompassing. Silat (as a FULL art) IS all encompassing, trying to avoid confrontation at all costs but where it erupts end it quickly, efficiently and with least violence or inbalance possible.

Therefore i agree with what you have said bro, but to deny the physical aspect of silat is to deny reality.

[dsbasuki]

lol.. bro did you ever meet one of these guys before?

Salam...
My answer is: No. But if I have to meet these guys, I would like to meet in peace, be friend and perhaps have good discussion. 

Therefore i agree with what you have said bro, but to deny the physical aspect of silat is to deny reality.

No, I did not deny any physical aspect of silat. In fact, it is the FIRST aspect of silat before we move to more advanced and sophisticated aspects. 
Please watch many silat movies in YouTube. If you are really and trully in the art, you will find a way to "physically counter" any attacks on you from any kind of troubles, including the one from your original question.

You remind me my "old days".  I was in the same path as yours. I have found what I have been looking for. Now, I know... the end of the path, any path, is "suwung" (emptiness). The result of this "suwung" is peace. No more fists and kicks even to the fiercest opponent I might face. Just smile... no sweat... and nothing happen. This is the real "Perisai Diri" for me. Been there... done that... It is hard to understand by reading my posting. You HAVE TO go through the path you have chosen to find what you have been looking for. Keep practicing your art with sincere, and you will know the answer of your own question. Of course, if you are really practicing your art and not just another keyboard fighter or keybord warrior. Please don't take it to your heart.

May God Almighty give you enlightment.
May peace be with you.

Salam....

[f4iz]

lol.. bro did you ever meet one of these guys before?
many are humble, but then again many are not... just like all martial arts.
Martial arts is, amongst other things, the art of survival from physical attack.
If this is not the case then bro please stop physical training in silat and just sit reading books all day.
...........
Therefore i agree with what you have said bro, but to deny the physical aspect of silat is to deny reality.

Salam,
I think my first inclination would probably to run if I ever encounter a psycho or an expert wielding a bladed weapon.  I would like to share a story about an experience I had when I was in Jr. High in Jakarta. Just to give a quick background, in Indonesia, Jr. High, High School, and even to some extend college students fight between schools quite frequently. Most of the time is many against many and almost never one on one.
My Jr. High was challenged to a brawl by another Jr. High. We agreed to meet by the railroad in Cikini area in Jakarta. Note: SMP is JR. Highschool.
There were about 30 of us. We saw the other group(enemy) at the end of the road. So about 5 of us (me and a few friends) decided to move closer to the other group while we told the others to be a few steps behind. We were suppose to be the negotiators (negotiate the terms of the brawl). We took about 10 steps then we noticed reflections from shiny things from where the other group was. We took a few more steps, thats when we realized that they were carying Golok, Katana, Knifes,Chains, etc. We thought it was going to be a fist fight boy were we wrong !!! Then the other gang advanced towards us..when we looked back at our friends, remember the ones we told to stay behind us, all we saw was dust and the back of their heads. They made the art of 2000 lighting steps !! We knew we were not THE FIVE DEADLY VENOMS who would be able to defeat countless weapon wielding enemies..so we turned around and ran as fast as we could. I was scared sh1tl3ss. We managed to catch up with some of our other friends by the railroad. Thats when we decided to make our last stand. There were alot of rocks and junk by the railroad. So we grabbed all we could and started throwing stuff at the other side. I guess those samurai, golok, and arit were no match for railroad rocks, wood, and whatever junk thrown at them. They turned around and started retreating.
I think from that experience I learned a few things:
-Don't assume because you make an ...of you and me   
-And in desprate situation don't forget to pray, remember all you've learned, and grab whatever is available to increase your chance of getting out.
-I should practice running to make up for the lack of martial arts skills.
Hope the story is entertaining. It is for me now, but it wasn't at the time 

Salam ...
Faiz

[AbdUllah]

haha... yea very amusing :p

im sure terribly frighting at the time, but did the other guys think that they were actually going to use those knives? I mean in school brawls do people actually use them and kill eachother?

Its really quite insane if they do!

La ilaha ilAllah!

[dsbasuki]

im sure terribly frighting at the time, but did the other guys think that they were actually going to use those knives? I mean in school brawls do people actually use them and kill eachother?

Its really quite insane if they do!

Unfortunately and sadly, YES, they would! Even worse, some of the brawls were using slingshots and pellet guns (airguns 4.5mm cal). There were quite numbers of victims of schools brawl in Indonesia, esp. in Jakarta.  What Mas Faiz and his friends did was the right thing in my opinion. That's why he could tell his story to us, living well and properous.  The end would be very different if he tried to prove something that was not worth for a life.

Salam...

[f4iz]

haha... yea very amusing :p

im sure terribly frighting at the time, but did the other guys think that they were actually going to use those knives? I mean in school brawls do people actually use them and kill eachother?

Its really quite insane if they do!

La ilaha ilAllah!

Salam,
We weren't going to take our chances. We knew they did not carry those knives to teach us how to cook  or do art work Like Mas DBasuki said, the brawls there get very serious. There have been incidents where students get stabbed and even death.
It's usually never one on one, it usually involves weapons and large mass.
In another incident one of my friends, Yasrul, slipped when we were being chased by a large group of kids from another school. When he fell down the kids from the other school tried to stab him with a flatten railroad screw. He learned some Silat..but when he blocked the hacking and stabbing it didn't look like techniques from Jurus. It just looked like swatting flies, his arms was just moving everywhere to try to deflect the attack. Luckily some people helped him. He had several cuts in his arm but thank God none on his body or vital area. He had to get several stitches and a tetanus shot.
Wasalam,
Faiz

[AbdUllah]

SubhanAllah thats insane man
here in europe, that kinda thing only happens when 2 groups of drunk people meet (a udhu bilah) and they arent in their senses, and start fighting.
In england there were a few cases of kids being killed by other kids, and it was all over the news and police were hunting publicly for the people who did it, cuz it was sooo shocking. But it is horrible to think that this kind of thing is part of kids school culture over there.
I have been thinking over it for a while, because it is better education anyway but now i fully made up my mind............
THAT'S IT! MY KIDS ARE GOING TO SEKOLAH PONDOK!!!!

hormat