Harmony and Living together among Pecak Silat Educational Institutions

[baruklinting]

Harmony and Living together among Pecak Silat Educational Institutions

Pencak silat had spread out particularly in Indonesia. Basically even still exist however, in actual not much activities indeed and tend not shining as expected. Especially traditional pencak silat.

Factors that influences in Drawn of pencak silat

Leaving off the main function of  pencak silat
Anybody knows, pencak silat is an Indonesian tradisional  martial art. IPSI (Indonesian pencak silat Asscociation) had took pencak silat into sport and promote internationally and trigering young generation (pupil & student) to know silat.
Competition rules had adopted as ways to have affair appraisal. Eventually silat missed out of self-defense character, because prestige is become a prime target. Wining the competition

Leaving off root of self-defense

Point view part of Indonesian people assumes that pencak silat is like art of dancing. Not as pure a self-defense.  Almost traditional pencak silat styles has never competes in regard to the rules adopted by IPSI which is concern to the athlete safety.
Actually pencak silat fist styles is providing self-defense technique which is able to protect against opponent hits. The fist styles could be bearing same philosophy with overseas martial art.

Egoism & Fanatics.

In fact, fanatics is one of mandatory which is pasted for everyone who are studied pencak silat.  The pesilat (pendekar) is titled by their Guru. So the pendekar should loyal to his Guru and try the   
best effort to maintain both reputation and the guru’s honor
Repentances, fanatics will develop over confidence and coming as boomerang for pencak silat educational institutions shut from their environment. No mutual understanding, no cooperation among other pencak silat educational institutions. Its look like “Berlin wall” which is isolates their mindset.
Consciousness or unconsciousness, egoism and fanatics become a stumbling block for pencak silat progressists.

Its mandatory for any pesilat are deeply knows origination their educational institutions (perguruan), regardless how far reputation of the perguruan. This is a positive fanatics for self appraisal  which is  stirrup pesilat  for optimization  what they got from the perguruan. Eventually broaden their mindset to know more deep about pencak silat.

Regrettably a fanaticism become  boomerang for pesilat. The fanatics growing up in general influence going to introvert in almost pesilat. No breakthrough to create inter relation in between  perguruan.
When the fanatics has embedded, the perguruan silat (silat educational institution) will shutting down from silat environment,  and fells their own perguruan is best of the best.

What is our dream. Silat as traditional martial art, should have preservation. Good relationship among perguruan highly expeted. Difference style coming as prosperity. Broaden mindset  and living in harmony.

Original script by Ian Samsuddin, free translation by beps. 15-05-2007

[AR]

I absolutely agree with the thread above. We could say that the aliran or perguruan is like a spring water that flow to the river and fill the river with its clean and natural water. If the water from spring water are contaminated so does the river. The river itself consist of many spring waters, the bigger the flow and the number of spring water, the bigger is the river itself.
We could say that IPSI is like the river that consist of many alirans and perguruans, and all of them coloring the face of IPSI just like it is now. So we need that the water that flow to river to be clean and not contaminated by the competition and the argues of being the best that could make the harmony become imbalance. That's what happened now, the principles of brotherhood and good relationship among pencak silat aliran or perguruan become an expensive things, thus this is the reason why pencak silat organization in Indonesia having a downfall nowadays.

to be continue ......

[baruklinting]

That's what happened now, the principles of brotherhood and good relationship among pencak silat aliran or perguruan become an expensive things, thus this is the reason why pencak silat organization in Indonesia having a downfall nowadays.

Your point of view is interesting.
Actualy Forum Pelestari dan Pecinta Silat Traditional Indonesia has not relation with IPSI program.
We are only a small group who are sorrow to the Traditional Pencak Silat. And try our best effort to rejuvenate Traditional Pencak silat and placing as host in this country

[AR]

We are only a small group who are sorrow to the Traditional Pencak Silat. And try our best effort to rejuvenate Traditional Pencak silat and placing as host in this country
---------------------------------
Point is taken, this small group is like small river consists of many aliran and perguruans, lets hope this river is getting bigger, many alirans will join and will not contaminated with politics and interest other than to rejuvenate the pencak silat as host in our country.
Pencak silat traditional is the root to many big and modern perguruan, some perguruan stating that they are rooted to the traditional style and mixed with new martial arts, even we know that traditional pencak silat also mixed their traditional arts with others, we could see that from Cikalong that consist of many styles: Madi, Kari and Ma'rup....it is a blend !!
So the term of traditional is more likely to the way pencak silat is teaches, as opposites of modern pencak silat. or we could say that pencak silat traditional is a style of pencak silat that appear and created in an old  period of time..let say before Independence Year for instance or else ??.

[moneef]

Salaams,

I am new to the forum, I have just discovered the website, its really great to have an indonesian website, which is in english. I look forward to reading the great articles you have.


Moneef

[Kobok Muka]

Im not sure sure about tranlatting "Aliran" as "Styles". So, what we call "Jurus" in english? Many convert "Jurus" as "Styles" too in english.

Maybe we should mention "Aliran" still as "Aliran" dan "Jurus" still with "jurus" as many call silat master as "Guru" not "Teacher" or "Master"? 

Nowadays "Masjid" in bahasa, is still call "Masjid" in english, not "Mosque" anymore, thanx to many suggestions from many Muslims scholars.       

We should do the same ways with many Pencak Silat term, as many of terms are still said in theirs native languange in Sundanese, Betawinese, Javanese etc such as, "Papat Kalima Pancer", "Gedig", "Jeblag", "Godot", etc. 

[Bram2]

Pentjak Silat is being destroyed by hatred on this site.  Too many have sworn away from evil and hatred so Pentjak Silat will not flourish, guarantee.

You see the flowers blosoom because of the love but Pentjak Silat is already dying if not dead.  Who wants to hear from a bunch of women's gossipers?  Not me said
the World.  Maybe this art is good for the haters of this world?  You know who they are.  Bram is their leader.  Bram, you got bad write up already on other forums.  I agree with too many Americans bragging about their titles and self-appointed glories.  But be careful you don't step on the wrong toes.  You have not spoken about Reeders and other Dutch-Indos.  By the way if you wish to sport Silat then maybe I can help you, Bram.  I will show up to prove you know nothing as you are as hypocritical as those you criticize.   You have been right about most but not all of those you critique.  Hatred spreads like wild fire.  But Love is eternal.

Bram2

[Rebo Paing]

Bram ... You have been right about most but not all of those you critique.  Hatred spreads like wild fire.  But Love is eternal.

Bram2

Salam hormat to the moderator on this forum Mas Ian Samsuddin, and to everyone else.

I would like to respectfully point out that as Bram2 says, , Bram has been right about most  in his critique. But you (Bram2) have been insulting as well and calling names?

I believe that originally there was on our side that no malice was intended, and Bram is certainly not a leader of any group seeking to destroy institutions, because there is no group.

There is however a requirement for the world at large to know the truth regarding cultural aspects and claims made, if those claims are mistaken. Some of the mistakes could very well be honest mistakes ... that is the point of the inquiry. Dishonest claims should be made known because they can amount to slander/libel.

The original situation became worse/exacerbated because people got hot under the collar ... that is probably because ego's got in the way etc ... but mainly because in my opinion people with links to those being critiqued became defensive and reacted harshly ... this effectively stopped ALL conversation and ANY attempt to find the truth.

In my opinion curtailing free speech because one feels defensive is wrong ... and that is what happened on MAP as the hysterical response to Bram's original questions showed. Of that there is no doubt in my mind.

Please remember that the Internet is a text based communications medium, and because of that it is easy to misunderstand context.

Maybe, if I can make a suggestion, that instead of pointing out what is wrong about certain sites, those with interest could write a series of articles with proper information about Kejawen and other Indonesian silat traditional issues, e.g. Ilmu tentang Keris dsb?

That would indeed be a worthwhile service and wouldn't get other people penasaran.

I am hopeful that Silat Indonesia will be a sumber informasi (source of information) for Indonesia silat world wide ... it is bigger than all of us.

Salam,
Krisno

[stryker]

what a strange thread title.

[Mumtaz]

Salaam,

Rebo Paing has a great suggestion.  And since this board is moderated by Indonesians, perhaps you can impose upon some of the more secretive and low key pendekars and teachers to be more vocal.

Mas Bram mentioned a Haji Mang Ipin of Cimande: has he or will he write something for us?  Can someone interview him?

It is necessary to point out the errors and misrepresentations.  On the other hand we should work just as hard to show people the correct examples.

Salaams,

Mumtaz

[SundaWarrior]

Salam Everyone,

I believe that what Pak Krisno said should be taken to heart.  The best way to inform Westerners about "Pencak Silat" ,whether it be Serak,PCP, Wetzel's Kuntao or whatever style, should be through factual articles and also through traditional teachers sharing the truth about Pencak Silat.  It is "sad" for me to say it but what Mas Bram says about DeThouars' Serak,PCP,etc... is true.  Living in America, I not only read about it,hear about it, but I see it as well.  Many Americans claim to be Guru Besar or Pendekar but they know nothing about Indonesian Pencak Silat and the values it teaches.  They only care to use the name Pencak Silat to make money and to give themselves an ego boost. 

Mas Bram, I encourage you to continue to inform the West about the truth of Pencak Silat.  Do not let people like SgtMjr and Bram2 discourage you.  This forum will help Pencak Silat grow the way it should.

Bram2, whoever you are? and if my guess is correct you are just SgtMjr hiding behind a different name. you have the right to your opinion but do not be disrespectful.  i would like you to message me if you could.   

Hormat Saya,
Nicholas


   

[Nagapasa]

Salam silat,

Good information Sundawarrior, I have heard about it too, and I think is very very funny when you claim some title like "Guru besar" or "Pendekar besar" and it is hold by some one who don't understand what the meaning beside the title.

For me, it just like a bullshido, when the Pencak silat education institutions teaching silat for his student but don't care about indonesia cultur and don't know about the value of pencak silat (even don't know where is indonesia). 

The origination of pencak silat is important, you must know the root of aliran and history of the aliran it self. Every body can claim about what aliran that they have studied, but not every body have permit to teach the "aliran" as Teacher. that's the important thing of tradisional pencak silat.

so, if you whan to know what is silat just go to Indonesia...

Salam Everyone,

I believe that what Pak Krisno said should be taken to heart.  The best way to inform Westerners about "Pencak Silat" ,whether it be Serak,PCP, Wetzel's Kuntao or whatever style, should be through factual articles and also through traditional teachers sharing the truth about Pencak Silat.  It is "sad" for me to say it but what Mas Bram says about DeThouars' Serak,PCP,etc... is true.  Living in America, I not only read about it,hear about it, but I see it as well.  Many Americans claim to be Guru Besar or Pendekar but they know nothing about Indonesian Pencak Silat and the values it teaches.  They only care to use the name Pencak Silat to make money and to give themselves an ego boost. 

Mas Bram, I encourage you to continue to inform the West about the truth of Pencak Silat.  Do not let people like SgtMjr and Bram2 discourage you.  This forum will help Pencak Silat grow the way it should.

Bram2, whoever you are? and if my guess is correct you are just SgtMjr hiding behind a different name. you have the right to your opinion but do not be disrespectful.  i would like you to message me if you could.   

Hormat Saya,
Nicholas


   

[Ranggalana]

Salam Everyone,

Mas Bram, I encourage you to continue to inform the West about the truth of Pencak Silat.  Do not let people like SgtMjr and Bram2 discourage you.  This forum will help Pencak Silat grow the way it should.

Bram2, whoever you are? and if my guess is correct you are just SgtMjr hiding behind a different name. you have the right to your opinion but do not be disrespectful.  i would like you to message me if you could.   

Hormat Saya,
Nicholas
   

Salam hormat Adik Nicholas, and congratulations for coming to Indonesia and getting in touch with the sources of silat with a respect for the traditions. I hope that you progress in your study and keep a long lasting, mutually benefiting relationship with your contacts here. Thank you for your support.

Sarge and Bram2 don't discourage me, they sadden me. I worry about the splits and rifts within the traditional Cimande villages caused by the manipulative use of their friendship by visiting martial artists coming from positions of power in the West. Do you know anything about this?

Also as this forum has in the Indonesian section uncovered leads to discovering the older Sundanes martial art, why don't you investigate Gerak Gulung while you are still in Jakarta - Bogor area? It would be new and valuable information for most of us.

Mumtaz, when I see haji Mang Ipin I will interview him, but all the teachers brought forward by sahabat silat have been formerly unknown outside their communities and it is great to have them giving lessons and renewing networks across the silat geography and age groups. I believe that soon more well translated peices will be made available by sahabatsilat. It will be worth the wait, some are very interesting.

Warm salaams to all,
Bram

[Mumtaz]

Nicholas,

I think i heard about you from a "cimande" friend in Indonesia.  Are you based out of Florida? 

In addition to people like Mas Bram, we need people like you to speak the truth here in America.  Could you possibly clear up some of the misconceptions about Cimande based on your personal experience in Indonesia?

How many Guru Penglima Warrior Teacher(s) did you see there?   

[SundaWarrior]

Salam Everyone,

Bram,
Unfortunately i am no longer in Indonesia so I can not investigate into Gerak Gulung but I am sure my friends in Jakarta are looking into it.  Many Americans are being misled.  The only Cimande they know is from William Sanders or a few others that claim to know Cimande.  The American people do not think they need to come to Indonesia because they have Cimande Pusaka right here - it is very unfortunate.

Mumtaz,
Yes, I am located in Florida.  I am not a student of Cimande - I am a Maenpo Cikalong player.  When I was in Jakarta my friends took me to Tarikolot/Bogor "Cimande Village" just to do some research on Cimande.  The Pendekar we spoke with - who funny enough is mentioned on Willliam Sanders webpage - told us he was very upset by the actions and words of Mr. Sanders.  I do not mention the pendekar's name because I do not feel it is polite to do so but if you ask me in private i will tell you.  Unfortunately this is the only info I can give you but I hope this shows you that there are many teachers in the US that claim to be Pendekar of Cimande or whatever, that do not even have the respect of their Elders.  I did not see any so called "Guru Penglima" in Cimande Village - in fact the first time I had ever seen or heard of that term was on Mr.Sanders webpage.  I hope this helps you my friend and if you have any other questions feel free to ask.

Hormat,

Nicholas