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Author Topic: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2  (Read 4148 times)

optimus prime

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Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« on: 20/07/2007 14:57 »
However in Cimande culture it is uncommon to have a title of Guru Baharu or Guru Besar..... quoted by Bram >:(

http://keluargabesarpadjadjarancimande.blogspot.com.... These guys would need to contact Bram, as they don't realise that they shouldn't use these titles, or maybe Pendekar Bram is wrong. If people in Indonesia don't when they should or should not use titles, what hope have the rest of us....

Over the next few days I will post other incorrect statements that Pendekar Bram has made.

Opimus Prime
Voice of Freedon

A heart filled with darkness is a heart that cannot see.....

Rebo Paing

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #1 on: 20/07/2007 17:21 »
It is uncommon for a person to call themselves Guru Besar (i.e. to give themselves the title)  ... but others may bestow the title through respect, and because they are the pewaris (inheritor) of a style.

I looked at the site you gave and saw nothing ostentatious about it. Maybe I missed something? Having said that I'm not knowledgable on maenpo Cimande.

Another example, I am the founder (1st generation) of my family art distilled by my own intuition of my experiences ... but it would be a bit presumptuous and cheesy of me to call myself Ndoro Pendita Guru Sangat Besar Bahkan Agung Even Walaupun Sedikit Bahahaharu Sing Rodo Pikun   ;D. But now that I think of it, maybe I should ... hehe.

Don't you think that eyebrows would raise in the west if karateka went around giving themselves the title of Grand Master? Especially when the root of the school is still in existence in it's birthplace. Imagine if a Kyokushinkai player in the west arbitrarily gave themselves such a title ... how seriously would a (hypothetical) World Kyokushinkai Federation and even other karateka take such a claim? Even Mas Oyama who was an off-shoot of Kyokushinkai didn't declare himself with a title ... others did out of respect of his achievement.

Salam,
Krisno
« Last Edit: 20/07/2007 17:36 by Rebo Paing »

Ranggalana

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #2 on: 20/07/2007 18:15 »
However in Cimande culture it is uncommon to have a title of Guru Baharu or Guru Besar..... quoted by Bram >:(

http://keluargabesarpadjadjarancimande.blogspot.com.... These guys would need to contact Bram, as they don't realise that they shouldn't use these titles, or maybe Pendekar Bram is wrong. If people in Indonesia don't when they should or should not use titles, what hope have the rest of us....

Over the next few days I will post other incorrect statements that Pendekar Bram has made.

Opimus Prime
Voice of Freedon

A heart filled with darkness is a heart that cannot see.....

You must be talking about your heart, mate!

The Pajajaran Cimande site is great! I wonder if you read through it  at all?

The Cimande Pajajaran site explains it all: The Guru Besar (only 1 man, unlike the PCP) has several, a dewanful of Pendekars. We are in contact and these guys post here as well.

And still, it is uncommon to have these titles in traditional Cimande. Even Granpa Khoir is not called a Guru Besar, though he is the Guru Besar Cimande.

Freedom!
Bram.
batu kali jadi candi, duka jadi puisi, jagal jadi wali

Guru Penglima Warrior Tea

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #3 on: 21/07/2007 02:44 »
Hi Everyone,

Seems my screen name was too long for the registration, but I am GURU PENGLIMA WARRIOR TEACHER and I insist you call me by this well earned title!  Otherwise you can call me Tim.  I am an American silat practitioner, and I fully support this website and everything it stands for.  Please tell the representatives of sahabatsilat.com in Indonesia that we value the fine work they are doing.

I just wanted to give you my vote of confidence.  Although I already lost some money from this site.  When a friend of mine told me that a guy was seriously calling himself Guru Penglima Warrior Teacher, I called bullS*&t and bet him $5.00 that he couldn't prove it.

So here I am poorer but wiser (and more entertained)

Yours Truly,

GURU PENGLIMA WARRIOR TEACHER (Tim)

Gajah

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #4 on: 21/07/2007 03:12 »
LOL ;D ;D ;D

Guru Penglima Warrior TEA, or should that be Teh!!!

The deadly 'Sariwangi' tea warrior.

Bwahaha that' made me chuckle.

AbdUllah

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #5 on: 21/07/2007 03:39 »
Hi Everyone,

Seems my screen name was too long for the registration, but I am GURU PENGLIMA WARRIOR TEACHER and I insist you call me by this well earned title!  Otherwise you can call me Tim.  I am an American silat practitioner, and I fully support this website and everything it stands for.  Please tell the representatives of sahabatsilat.com in Indonesia that we value the fine work they are doing.

I just wanted to give you my vote of confidence.  Although I already lost some money from this site.  When a friend of mine told me that a guy was seriously calling himself Guru Penglima Warrior Teacher, I called bullS*&t and bet him $5.00 that he couldn't prove it.

So here I am poorer but wiser (and more entertained)

Yours Truly,

GURU PENGLIMA WARRIOR TEACHER (Tim)

haha

Guru Penglima Warrior Tea

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #6 on: 21/07/2007 03:44 »
My dear Gajah,

NO NO NO!!!!!  I am a Guru Penglima Warrior Teacher NOT a Warrior Tea or Teh!  Its just that the screen name is too long so it shortened it to TEA.  I am furious about this.  That just goes to show that some titles are too senseless to even be on an internet forum.  :P

But wait a minute...I am beginning to like the idea of a Guru Penglima Warrior Tea.  How's this for marketing:

GURU PENGLIMA WARRIOR TEA: THE OFFICIAL BEVERAGE OF PENDEKARS EVERYWHERE!
[/i]

Thanks for the suggestion Brother!  ;D

Tim

Gajah

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #7 on: 21/07/2007 04:45 »
ROTFLOL ;D [lucu]

Bored with latihan?

Want to be an instant pendekar?

Then drink Guru Penglima Warrior Tea [top]


Rebo Paing

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #8 on: 21/07/2007 05:54 »
Huh!! You guys have no respect  [lucu]  :w

Is that you GS? [top]

Welcome anyway ... it's great to see you all.

Salam hangat,
Krisno


Ranggalana

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #9 on: 24/07/2007 07:19 »
However in Cimande culture it is uncommon to have a title of Guru Baharu or Guru Besar..... quoted by Bram >:(

http://keluargabesarpadjadjarancimande.blogspot.com.... These guys would need to contact Bram, as they don't realise that they shouldn't use these titles, or maybe Pendekar Bram is wrong. If people in Indonesia don't when they should or should not use titles, what hope have the rest of us....

Over the next few days I will post other incorrect statements that Pendekar Bram has made.

Opimus Prime
Voice of Freedon

A heart filled with darkness is a heart that cannot see.....

Liam McDonadl where are you? Where is Sanders? How come you guys shout and scream at people you dislike when you feel in a strong environment, but are meek and quiet here, where Indonesians can watch you? You promised to post more and I have been waiting. I even have given you a good reputation vote. I think that I'll give you an other one later so that you have two.

Is there any way that Sanders can get it through his thick head that I don't point his misrepresentations out to personally attack him? It is not out of Sanders-hate that I have been looking through his lice. No, it is because my love for silat and the cultures here in this part of the world. So, if Sanders went and had a bath and washed his hair and brushed his teeth, he might smell better. And when he doesn't smell of manipulation and bombastic claims and misrepresentation, he will find many strong friendships with the SahabatSilat crew in Indonesia. I promise you.

So just accept that you have made mistakes. Be embarrassed if you must, go hide in the toilet for a while. But realize this, in the end, no one really cares. We are only laughing at you because you are being a clown. Stop being a clown and we will stop laughing.

Warm salaams,
Bram
batu kali jadi candi, duka jadi puisi, jagal jadi wali

optimus prime

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #10 on: 24/07/2007 07:46 »
Is there any way that Sanders can get it through his thick head that I don't point his misrepresentations out to personally attack him? ... Bram wrote#..

Next line in the same post.. It is not out of Sanders-hate that I have been looking through his lice..... Bram wrote

And then again
 So, if Sanders went and had a bath and washed his hair and brushed his teeth, he might smell better..... Bram wrote

Complete contradiction within your own post, just got to love it

Optimus Prime
A heart full of darkness will only lead to sorrow, look up and see the sunlight
« Last Edit: 24/07/2007 07:53 by optimus prime »

AbdUllah

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #11 on: 24/07/2007 10:45 »
"can get it through his thick head" in english is very rarely a sign of malice on the part of one person to another, but rather a sign of frustration on the part of one, at the lack of the other's ability to grasp where a problem lies.

I am fairly sure lice was meant to mean "lies" (or at least i read it that way)... and so he is saying "i do not focus on his lies because i hate him".

Talking about him having a bath is metaphorical rather than literal, he is basically alluding to the fact that if Sanders "cleaned up his act" (i.e. what Bram sees as cleaning up his act by retracting many of Sanders' claims), then he would appeal (smell nicer) to others.

I do not see a contradiction in the post, i DO see some language of frustration, but i see an olive branch.....

Am i alone in that?

Peace :)
(p.s. this is in no way an attack on you optimus, or anyone, so please no one think this is me taking sides and wanting to be part of a name calling match)

Ranggalana

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #12 on: 24/07/2007 12:40 »
Is there any way that Sanders can get it through his thick head that I don't point his misrepresentations out to personally attack him? ... Bram wrote#..

Next line in the same post.. It is not out of Sanders-hate that I have been looking through his lice..... Bram wrote

And then again
 So, if Sanders went and had a bath and washed his hair and brushed his teeth, he might smell better..... Bram wrote

Complete contradiction within your own post, just got to love it

Optimus Prime
A heart full of darkness will only lead to sorrow, look up and see the sunlight

Optimus Prime, brave man without a name... sometimes I think you are Liam but your language is a little too inteligent. Sanders? Chris Martin? Jerry Jacobs? It must be one of you beacuse the rest of your students don't have a vested interest in this discourse. A shame you don't reveal your identity as that would make communication a lot easier. Anyway, I think I'll give you another good reputation point, so that now you have three and all are form me.

Looking through your lice, I did mean nitts, thoughs crawling mites. It is a translation of the Jawanes 'metani' from the word 'petan' which means to search for someone's lice. It is a past social activity in Jawa and usually done between good friends and family. Some types of monkeys do it as well. Maybe the cultural context did not translate, sorry for that.

I do not have any hate for Sanders. It is Sanders who has hatred and fails to see the sunshine. Look at his arguments about who is the mysterious  mas Jud in articles and letters on his site. Look at the histerical responses to posts questioning peculiar parts of his text on his site. He can't read what people say and stay cool because he has been grinding an axe for some time, maybe against the De Thouars, maybe also against those ex students of his who discovered his lies and left him.

Sad thing is, he could clean up his act, learn some adat and adab, and he would be supported by the whole silat community here. Fighting critics only gets you criticized more. And if you look at the fact that now Sanders has improved his website: concealed his dodgy certificate from Tarik Kolot and changed the photograph of him dressed as a Sundanese boy getting circumcised brandishing a keris, made the explanation of the name PCP which still goes against logic (as Gajah pointed out), then in some ways I believe that sanders has taken my advice.

Optimus Prime, whoever you are, I like to keep an open mind about things and am curious as to what mistakes i have made concerning descriptions I made about silat culture in general. You promised to bring them here but you have not. For the sake of my development and understanding, I would like to remind you to post those mistakes that you say I have made.

Maybe you would be happier if you knew that misrepresentations of silat are not only performed by people like your Sanders or the other Wetzel lineage schools. Here in Indonesia  we have plenty misrepresentations of silat as well. The culture of silat holds a lofty ideal concerning the character of the practitioners and most people just don't live up to that. That is why in an Indonesian context, the way you put the title Pendekar in front of my real name when you try and mock me, is seen as an attempt to humiliate. it is a very heavy burden to carry a title like Pendekar, Guru, or even more Guru Besar.

I don't feel humiliated by you though, as you have no name and you don't have a clue. Still I believe that if you stay here long enough you will be able to understand that Sanders is one of ours. They only problem is that he has git carried away with his imagination, manipulation, and his lies. So he has his ego invested heavily in all this. And as you say, a heart full of darkness can't see the light. Go tell Sanders that!

Warm salaams,
Bram.
batu kali jadi candi, duka jadi puisi, jagal jadi wali

Ranggalana

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #13 on: 24/07/2007 12:43 »
Sorry Optimus Prime, I can't give you a good reputation vote yet, I must wait an other 12 hours! But it is coming don' worry!

Salam haha
Bram
batu kali jadi candi, duka jadi puisi, jagal jadi wali

Ranggalana

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Re: Things that make you go mmmmmhhhh part 2
« Reply #14 on: 27/07/2007 23:21 »
Sorry Optimus Prime, I can't give you a good reputation vote yet, I must wait an other 12 hours! But it is coming don' worry!

Salam haha
Bram

There you go Optimus Prime I just gave you a good reputation point. You have 3, all from me. All are for your good intention of exposing mistakes I have made.

I see you have modified your website again. Are you not going to thank this forum for giving you reason to do that? And in the new QnA section of your site you don't explain the mystery of the disappearing certificate signed by the village officials you thought were Cimande elders? Now, that must have been something that you overlooked by mistake, as many people want to know how you made the mistake of thinking the village officials were Cimande elders. Did someone dupe you?

Warm salaams,
Bram
batu kali jadi candi, duka jadi puisi, jagal jadi wali

 

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