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Author Topic: New Affiliate to the AOPSA  (Read 4058 times)

SundaWarrior

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    • The Association of Pencak Silat America
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New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« on: 21/11/2007 17:49 »
Salam Everyone,

I just wanted to let everyone know we have a new American affiliate
for the AOPSA - his name is Guru Twitchell.  His system is called Bunga Cantik Pencak Silat and it is a combination of Mande Muda with other popular U.S. styles.  Guru Twitchell has been promoting the cultural side of Pencak Silat as well by participating in Indonesian Day in Sacramento, California where he currently teaches.  I don't know if he has been on the message board yet but if you see him around please welcome him.

Hormat,
Nicholas

 
The Association of Pencak Silat America - "Promoting Brotherhood Within US Pencak Silat"

Gajah

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #1 on: 21/11/2007 18:48 »
'Beautiful flower' silat. Interesting choice of name.

However, I've always been amazed at how terms such as 'flower' or 'fruit' are used in silat :)

D

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #2 on: 21/11/2007 19:23 »
Whilst I've always been amazed by how many Guru etc there are in the U.S, how dose one become a Guru?

SundaWarrior

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #3 on: 22/11/2007 00:40 »
A lot of people in the U.S. think a Guru is just a word meaning teacher.  I personally believe it is much more than that.  If my translation is correct it means "One who dispells evil".  I hold a Guru
as someone with high moral character who is also very skilled in the art of Pencak Silat.  I will rarely call someone "especially an American"
Guru unless I can see they are a person of good moral character, have good skill in their art, and also promote the cultural aspects of
Indonesian Pencak Silat.  Guru Twitchell does not even refer to himself as Guru.  I believe he uses the term Satria (meaning knight - I believe).  I refer to him as Guru because of the things I listed above.

p.s. there are lot of systems in the U.S. that use more highly respective terms like "Pendekar" but unless I am instructed by their
teacher I have a very hard time calling someone in the U.S. by these
titles.

Hope this helps,
Nicholas
The Association of Pencak Silat America - "Promoting Brotherhood Within US Pencak Silat"

EricB

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #4 on: 22/11/2007 04:02 »
instructor or the indonesian term "Pelatih" is more suitable IMHO

Guru and Pendekar are to heavy titles
in my vision a Guru or Guru Besar are founders of a system
a Pendekar is a sort of knight defending the heritage of a system

D

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #5 on: 22/11/2007 05:55 »
  Guru Twitchell does not even refer to himself as Guru.  I believe he uses the term Satria (meaning knight - I believe).  I refer to him as Guru because of the things I listed above.

Satria is a religious cast of Indian warriors, skilled in Indian martial arts, unless you know Indian martial arts why would you call yourself a satria?

The term knight as used in the west is similar to the term Pendekar I think.

Point is you cannot simply call yourself a Satria, a pendekar, a knight, a Guru......those titles have to be given by someone who has authority to do so.

SundaWarrior

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #6 on: 22/11/2007 06:48 »
Salam D,

If my knowledge is correct Guru Twitchell's title of Satria was given to him by the Suwanda Academy in West Java.  Satria in Indonesian means knight - I believe - not referring to the Indian warriors or maybe the Indonesian word was derived from the Satria of India, I don't know.  What i was told in West Java is that the Sundanese word "Pendekar" means the warrior who uses his skills for "good".  The title of Guru is something that I gave Mr. Twitchell based on his attributes - of course I am no one of authority  - I just try to give respect where it is do.

Regards,
Nicholas   
The Association of Pencak Silat America - "Promoting Brotherhood Within US Pencak Silat"

Satria

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #7 on: 22/11/2007 07:57 »
Satria is a religious cast of Indian warriors, skilled in Indian martial arts, unless you know Indian martial arts why would you call yourself a satria?


Correct... Satria originates from the Veidic terminology... It means 'warrior'...

Regards,
Satria.. errmm.. Warrior.. ermm.. Knight.. I mean, Martin...  :P

srdananjaya

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #8 on: 22/11/2007 09:43 »
Salam..
just want to share my opinion..
in Indonesian "very" general term.. guru means teacher.. like "guru matematika" means the one who teach Math, "guru silat" means the one who teach silat.. my be he was refering to this term..(positive thinking aja deh.. yg ginian ko diributin :P)
or may be in his silat curriculum..
- pelatih = guru while creator = pendekar
- or may be pelatih=pendekar and creator=Mahapendekar Pencipta ;D
hehe.. it doesnt really matter I think.. the most important matter is that he had promote Indonesian Pencak Silat and Indonesian term .. guru.. in US.
OK.. tetap semangat mas.. [top]
martial art equipment:
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www.simpleather.com

f4iz

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #9 on: 22/11/2007 11:09 »
Salam to all..
I don't know if we beat this discussion to death yet :) Just wanted to add my two cents. In Indonesia, like Mas Srdananjaya (Gimana kabarnya Mas ???) stated the term Guru means teacher. It is the same words used in Hindi language also. I think in Hindi it means Wise one or one who guides the ignorants. In Indonesia, it just means teacher. Many Indonesia words derived from sanskrits (old hindi). Thats why Indonesia have the word Satria, Pandhito/Pendeta, Wicaksana/Bijaksana (wise), Guru, etc that were derived from Sankrits. In any case, didn't mean to write a lecture on Indonesian language in a Silat board :) *I flunk Indonesian language class in Jr. High* :-\
One thing to note, I think this is important share with everyone, in Indonesia we don't use the word Guru, Pendekar, Maha Guru, Guru Besar, or any other titles in front of an individual's name when we address the person.
My Math teacher in Jr. High School was Nazarudin. We called him Pak Nazarudin not Guru Nazarudin. One of my Silat teacher's name was Abu. We called him Mas Abu not Guru Abu or Pelatih Abu. The title used in front of the name Indonesian use usually equates to Mr.(Pak), Brother (Mas, Kang,younger brother-Adik), Grandfather (Abah, Kakek).

Regards,
Faiz

DasaMan

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #10 on: 22/11/2007 15:27 »
Ah, but to complicate matters, when one addresses Pak Nazarudin in conversation,one would usually use 'Pak Guru' as reference, as in 'I am innocent Pak Guru, he was the one who cheated!' :D

One would only refer to Pak Nazarudin as Pak Nazarudin indirectly, as in 'The one sitting on the far right corner is Pak Nazarudin -- beware, he's a killer teacher in class!' :D

And futhermore, it is not all that uncommon to hear the compound reference Pak Guru Nazarudin, as in, 'The point is, pak Guru Nazarudin, how much does it require for you to exercise wisdom and 'help' my son pass the class?' :D

Don't mind me though, just musings of an ex-schoolbook editor reminiscing days of old :D

D

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #11 on: 22/11/2007 19:32 »
I was not aware that the word satria was also used in the Indonesian language.

In India a Satria is a Knight, not only a knight but a spiritual warrior belonging to a religious cast and having a particular knowledge.

In Indonesia I guess the word simply means a martial artist or warrior, I'm sure I don't need to explain the difference between a knight and a warrior.

Seems that in India the word guru also has a deeper meaning then in Indonesia if it simply means teacher in Indonesian language.

When I hear these words I attach the Indian meaning to them so sorry for bringing this off on a tangent :)

f4iz

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #12 on: 22/11/2007 20:51 »
Hi,
I hope others who have a better command of the proper and old Indonesian language chime in.
I believe in Indonesia the words original meaning is similar to that of it's sanskrit word. However, over time due to the words usage in everyday conversation the meaning became more general.
For example, the word Ksatria's original meaning in the Indonesian language is a Knight or Warrior that is couragous and full of integrity. However, in everyday usage we also refer Ksatria to a Warrior.
Same as Pandhito/Pendeta. The original meaning in the Indonesia language is a religous wiseman full of wisdom. But nowadays the word's usage in the Indonesian language is more comon to refer to a priest but more often to refer to a Christian priest.
Guru is the same way, in the original Indonesian meaning it is a person who guides the ignorant or one who is knowledgeable. But in everyday usage it means a teacher.
Like what was discussed previously.

Regards,
Faiz

Gajah

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #13 on: 22/11/2007 21:34 »
LOL yet another innocent thread morphing into an old chestnut. So much to disaggree about and so little time :w

So let's talk etymology.

Satria, ksatria, khasatiya....all refer to one of the four main castes in Hinduism. They may be referred to as a kingly or warrior caste.

These castes a rooted in ancient vedic texts and have become heritary and hence have little to do with being a warrior etc. the others are Brahmins(preists), Vaishayas(traders) and Shudras(farmers, workers). There are also untouchables known as Parjanya or Antyaja, now callet Dalits.

The Balinese and Tenggerese have similar caste systems.

Anyway it's a Hindu term regardless, so is guru.

Gu=darkness ru=light. So dispeller of darkness or bringer of light-take your pick!

Also pendita from pundit....oh, I could go on for ever.

I like to think of Bahasa Indonesia like English. A language that absorbs and appropriates many terms from many sources. Something that tends to happen with island seafaring nations.

Of course meaning is partly reliant on intent and context too ???

f4iz

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Re: New Affiliate to the AOPSA
« Reply #14 on: 22/11/2007 23:39 »
Salam,
We're not disagreeing, we're only explaining from different perspectives :w
Anyways, Mas Nick do you have any information regarding Bunga Cantik Silat ? I'm curious to know it's history and background.
I think in the future there will probably be more and more Silat styles formulated or founded outside of Asia.
So far  here are the ones I know:
  • Silat Pertempuran
  • Silat Ksatria
  • Silat Bunga Cantik
  • Silat Maphilindo
  • Silat Madjapahit
  • Silat Mawar Suci
  • Silat Cimande Pusaka
There are much more to list that I don't know about.
I'm curious to know the similarities and differences between these Silat styles and the styles from Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, etc ? It's probably difficult to answer since Silat from even the same areas differ. I'm wondering if in terms of the techniques applications or the way classes are taught they differ from the styles found in SE Asia ? Also, I've heard that In US most people on the streets box. Would the self defense technique be more focused on defending against boxers ?
Thank you..look forward to another set of interesting discussion now that we got the interesting language discussion out of the way  ;D

Regards,
Faiz
« Last Edit: 23/11/2007 05:36 by f4iz »

 

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