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Author Topic: Terminology  (Read 5510 times)

SilatJunkie

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Terminology
« on: 17/08/2007 22:19 »
Selamat All;

I have been running across a bunch of new terms that weren't used by my teachers in Pencak Silat and I am wondering if people could explain them?

Ganda - Sometimes it seems like sparring and other times it seems more like demonstasi.

Asas Silat Pulut - This seems to vary in what it means too. Again sometimes it seems like demonstrasi but not so much like sparring and not so much choreographed, yet not really engaging.

Debus - This is mysticism applied through Islam as I understand it but I'm not sure how it would be different from Ilmu or Kebatinan unless these are facets of debus..?

Anyway, I love learning and since the east is opening a bit more to us these are questions I've had for a while.

Hormat saya,
Sean
Hormat saya,
Sean

SundaWarrior

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #1 on: 17/08/2007 23:25 »
Salam Guru,

Ganda, from what I was told in Jakarta at IPSI, is the two person choreographed
demonstration format of a particular style for the purpose of competition.

Debus is still kind of vague to me, but i have heard 2 different answers to that question.
So it is probably best if someone else answers that ?

I will see you soon Guru.  My flight back to Florida leaves in a few hours.

Hormat,
Nicholas
The Association of Pencak Silat America - "Promoting Brotherhood Within US Pencak Silat"

Gajah

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #2 on: 17/08/2007 23:30 »
Selamat Mas Sean,

My Indonesian is not so good so this maybe wrong, and I'm by no means a linguist, but hey it'll no doubt get corrected ;D

Ganda= literally double. I've not heard it used as a silat term per se but I expect it means two opponents sparring.

Silat Pulut=A stylised, ceremonial form of silat often performed at weddings and special occasions. Asas = something akin to basic or principle(I think ???).

Debus= as I understand things, it is the acceptable form in which ilmu kebatinan can be demonstrated...climbing ladders of blades & so on.

Hope I'm on the right track.


Edit: Mas Nick, must have posted answers at the same time!
« Last Edit: 17/08/2007 23:31 by Gajah »

SilatJunkie

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #3 on: 17/08/2007 23:33 »
Selamat Nick and Gajah - Thanks. Ganda as I have seen it seems to sometimes be sparring and sometimes to be choreographed or explorative that's what confuses me about that one...

See you soon Nick. I hope your flight is good.

Hormat saya,
Sean
Hormat saya,
Sean

Gajah

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #4 on: 17/08/2007 23:36 »
On a side note, silat pulut often leads to confusion on some forums ::)

There were times on MAP when a number of people misunderstood some clips of silat pulut on youtube and so on, erroneously confusing this with the combat aspect of silat. [lucu]

Gajah

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #5 on: 17/08/2007 23:46 »
Mas Sean,

I think generally, silat can be very culturally embedded and it can be difficult sometimes to know which part is being expressed.

This was illustrated by one of Gorka's clips, which caused much confusion. Largely because most of the viewers had a Western compartmental mindset and couldn't quite grasp the fact that flow, expression, combat etc. were all intertwined.

Sometimes if it's not as obvious as a gorilla beating it's chest on UFC...... ^:)^

Indonesian cultures can be quite unique sometimes, and can be very bewildering(& I'm married to one) ???

JD Tekpi

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #6 on: 17/08/2007 23:48 »
Salaam Everyone,

PULUT- in Northern Malaysian and Sumateran (such as Aceh) Silat, pulut can be ceremonial or for demonstration, where the practitioners "play to the audience" with dramatic facial expressions, etc.

However, I use pulut with my students to develop proper body mechanics for pukulan and kuncian.  It's almost like a full-body sensitivity drill...with slow but fluid counter-for-counter.  Sometimes we call it Slow Sparring.  The idea is to develop and feel body mechanics, not to tag your partner.

Salaam,
Jeff Davidson

SilatJunkie

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #7 on: 18/08/2007 01:06 »
For us, we use the term Permainan or main for that. We start with "lower" expressions that don't involve exchanges and term that as bunga which is sort of self-expression, but move into permainan or main when doing counter counter. I have also seen that listed as main terus.
Hormat saya,
Sean

Rebo Paing

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #8 on: 18/08/2007 11:46 »
.... to develop proper body mechanics for pukulan and kuncian.  It's almost like a full-body sensitivity drill...with slow but fluid counter-for-counter.  Sometimes we call it Slow Sparring.  The idea is to develop and feel body mechanics, not to tag your partner.

Mas Jeff, I agree with you. It's important to feel the whole body on a deep level. That way we don't rely on momentum, and develop our anti-gravitational system of muscles and tendons. Without having to know specifics, it is enough to know that utilising this core provides greater stability and affects our ability to move and express power with authority.
Heheh ... try the exercise blindfolded, because without the benefit of sight our balance (stability) is challenged to a greater degree ... with the result that our body core gets a harder workout. It is quite amazing how much we rely on sight and we take it for granted.
Actually it's very simple to test how much we tend to rely on the sense of sight ... blindfold an then raise one leg, raise arms on the same side and rub palms while turning head over opposite shoulder (looking the opposite way to hands) ... if a person can do that deliberately and consistently without having to drop the raised leg, they have acceptable balance and structure  ;D.

Mas Sean, permainan is a "game" that players might play. Main terus, is playing continuously.

Salam,
Krisno

EricB

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #9 on: 18/08/2007 14:03 »
Hello Sean,

for Ganda: this term is indeed double, nowadays used in a Pencak Silat Competition form also called Ganda

Quote from: PERSILAT Regulations
The definition of GANDA (Double) category Is :
a Pencak Silat competition category in which two Pesilats (two contestants) of the same team perform their skills and demonstrate the  richness of their attack-defense Jurus techniques. The attack-defense movements are performed in a well-planned, effective, aesthetic, stable and logical manner, well-organized, whether it is a powerful and fast movement or slow and contemplative movement, bare-handedly and armed.

Quote
Rules of the game

5.1.1.  Within 3 minutes contestants shall demonstrate the richness of Pencak Silat attack/defense techniques bare handedly as well as with weapons.  When performing with weapon, both pesilats are not allowed to use weapons at the same time, one pesilat should use the weapon only when the other is bare-handed.  Only 5 (five) seconds tolerance is allowed to the performance time limit. If exceeding the tolerance limit,  a penalty will be imposed.

5.1.2.  The techniques shall be performed in series. Each series shall be a composition of attack-defense techniques, designed effectively, aesthetically, firmly, and logic. Whether it is powerful fast movement or slow movement, whether bare-handedly or armed, all techniques should be clearly shown

Each series begins with ‘sikap pasang’, execution of attack/defense technique, and return to ‘sikap pasang’ or starting move. Pesilats have the freedom to determine the number of series to be performed within three-minute time.

5.1.3.  It allowed to utter sound during the performance as long as not excessively.

I hope this is of any use to you

regards Eric

Ranggalana

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #10 on: 18/08/2007 14:47 »
Selamat All;

I have been running across a bunch of new terms that weren't used by my teachers in Pencak Silat and I am wondering if people could explain them?

Ganda - Sometimes it seems like sparring and other times it seems more like demonstasi.

Asas Silat Pulut - This seems to vary in what it means too. Again sometimes it seems like demonstrasi but not so much like sparring and not so much choreographed, yet not really engaging.

Debus - This is mysticism applied through Islam as I understand it but I'm not sure how it would be different from Ilmu or Kebatinan unless these are facets of debus..?

Anyway, I love learning and since the east is opening a bit more to us these are questions I've had for a while.

Hormat saya,
Sean

Salam Sean,

Ganda means double, and in current silat terms means what Kang Eric says below. Asas, means principle. Silat Pulut is a Malay term, meaning more or less what Ibing means in West Jawa. Pulut is sticky (rice) sometimes used to catch birds, so silat pulut's intention is to capture and audience - for show.

Debus is a theatrical show of magic and invincibility and mostly is practiced in the Banten province. Pagar Nusa in East jawa also perform ilmu kebal for audiences but it is not generally called debus even though it is. Ilmu Kebatinan can also cover debus but not necessarily. In alot of Central Jawa thought schools, being invincible is considered undesireable.

Historically debus was introduced along with Islam in Cirebon and Banten to atract converts. You can see the oldest debus props in the museum of Kraton Kasepuhan in Cirebon. A twist in history now has literalist Muslim condemning Debus as un-Islamic.

Pencak Silat itself is a modern term aimed to unify the martial movements of the archipelago -especially the Western side of it (Papua martial arts are not called silat or pencak). The explaination that pencak is movement and silat is application is new and not strictly true but serves to explain and describe, so has become the contemporary truth.

Salam hangat and hope this helps,
Bram
batu kali jadi candi, duka jadi puisi, jagal jadi wali

SilatJunkie

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #11 on: 18/08/2007 20:16 »
Selamat To All;

Thank you for your help Bram, Eric, All. Could I ask for further clarification?

How do Ganda and pulut differ then? Because I've seen pulut done berpasangan. Is it choreographed versus spontaneous?

And how would pulut differ then from Main? Ganda would be different because it's choreographed and main isn't (in my experience) but the pulut seems spontaneous. Does that sound correct?

Ibing I haven't seen done berpasangan and have only seen it done solo. Same as Kembangan right?
Hormat saya,
Sean

amirulhusnitekpi

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #12 on: 18/08/2007 21:31 »
Assalamua'laikum and peace to all,

I'm not an expert on Silat Pulut, but from what i have seen (and learned...a bit) is the Silat Pulut in Northern Peninsula Malaysia has its own rules and regulations of some sort. If you do not follow the 'rules', then it's not to be considered as Silat Pulut. Wallahua'lam.

Any other Malaysian pesilat who can help elaborate further on Silat Pulut?

I hope that anyone here who wants to know more of Silat Pulut, please come to Malaysia. It's Visit Malaysia year, not to mention our 50th Independence Celebration this coming 31st August.

Peace

Ranggalana

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #13 on: 20/08/2007 14:35 »
Assalamua'laikum and peace to all,

I'm not an expert on Silat Pulut, but from what i have seen (and learned...a bit) is the Silat Pulut in Northern Peninsula Malaysia has its own rules and regulations of some sort. If you do not follow the 'rules', then it's not to be considered as Silat Pulut. Wallahua'lam.

Any other Malaysian pesilat who can help elaborate further on Silat Pulut?

I hope that anyone here who wants to know more of Silat Pulut, please come to Malaysia. It's Visit Malaysia year, not to mention our 50th Independence Celebration this coming 31st August.

Peace


There you go, even more complicated now.


Salam hangat semuanya.... we need more Sumatran and Malaysian pesilat here, definitely.

Bram.
batu kali jadi candi, duka jadi puisi, jagal jadi wali

amirulhusnitekpi

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Re: Terminology
« Reply #14 on: 21/08/2007 01:21 »
Assalamua'laikum and peace to all,

Sorry to make things a wee bit complicated Pak Bram  ;D

Okay...here's a bit of explanation on Silat Pulut, as practiced in Kedah. But before i begin, i would like to point out that i'm not an expert and my knowledge is that of an amateur Silat Pulut pesilat.

Silat Pulut starts off with each person in the pair doing the 'Rumah Sembah' or 'Bunga Sembah' or 'Sembah Perguruan'. If the pair comes from the same perguruan, then they usually do the 'Bunga Sembah' together and in unison (synchronized). But if each comes from different perguruan or are elder pesilat(s), then they will take turns showcasting their prowess in 'Bunga Sembah'. It is during this small period of time do they show the 'tersurat' and the 'tersirat' of their knowledge  8)

Next comes the 'Tapak Empat' (if i'm not mistaken with the actual name). Here, the pair will stand facing each other at a distance and in an angle. Then they will start to mirror the moves of the other, stepping in a sequence of points in a somewhat invisible square. After each pair has returned to their starting point, then the fun begins  :)

This time, they will continue to move towards each other and begin their quest to duel. If the pair is from the same perguruan, then most of the time they will duel in a series of locks and counters. If from different perguruan, usually the duel is more of a check and balance antics...mostly with pukulan and acah-mengacah. Sometimes, the pair will add in humor for the amusement of the crowd.

Finally, after a series of 'jual-beli', they will seek a truce and both will turn to face the front and will end with a shorter version of their own respective 'Bunga Sembah'.

If anyone who wants to know more, please try to seek pesilat from Gayung Patanni or Fatani. They are experts in Northern Peninsula Silat Pulut. Wallahua'lam.

Peace

 

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