the floor is your friend

[Josh]

I have not posted for a bit, but I have been thinking about what I could contribute to this forum.  One thing that I find special about traditional arts from Indonesia is that the floor is made an ally not an enemy.  Most martial arts focus on fighting another person, which if we are lucky, we will never do.  Most people are much more likely to have a violent encounter with the ground through an accident.  Simple falls injure and kill untrained people every day, and complications after a fall are some of the leading causes of death in the elderly.  In my school there are many examples of students surviving things like getting hit by a car while bike riding with only minor injuries even after only a few years practice.  I attribute this to the way silat prepares one for falling and rolling on the floor.  While this may not be attractive to some who just want to learn to fight, falling is the most dangerous violence that most will encounter. 

It might be nice to include the immense potential benefit of learning to fall in descriptions of silat that are presented to those who are less familiar with Indonesian arts.  How does everyone think we should go about it?  In my experience, if you tell people they will be rolling and falling without mats within six months, they find this intimidating rather than attractive, even though it is the most important thing they could learn from the perspective of personal safety.

Thanks,
Josh

[Michael Lee]

Great thread title Josh! 

In the style that I practice, rolls and slap offs are some of the first things new students are taught.  They come in handy when practicing applications as we love to incorporate take downs.  Indeed, we practice a concept that we call 'hitting the opponent with the ground' where the goal is takedown your opponent in a manner where he can't roll-out or slap off.  Doesn't always work, but we try.   

More along the lines of what you're talking about... I recall a story that one of my high school teachers told me.  He was a Judo guy going back to the 70s.  He had been involved in a car accident in his convertible where he wasn't wearing a seatbelt.  He was thrown through the air several feet away from the collision but because of his instinctual ability to roll-out, he suffered only minor scrapes and bruises.  The kicker in the story was that when he walked back to the scene and over to the car of the other driver involved in the accident, the driver thought he was a bystander.   

Funny eh?!?!?

Michael

[DasaMan]

It might be nice to include the immense potential benefit of learning to fall in descriptions of silat that are presented to those who are less familiar with Indonesian arts.  How does everyone think we should go about it?  In my experience, if you tell people they will be rolling and falling without mats within six months, they find this intimidating rather than attractive, even though it is the most important thing they could learn from the perspective of personal safety.

In my club, we roll without mats from DAY ONE. We're just that pennyless.

Amazing turnover rate we have, though strangely those that stay tend to be... women.

[Ranggalana]

Does anyone know of a traditional silat school that uses mats? I have never heard of mats used in traditional silat...

But back to thread about the floor. I have heard that in some traditional silat styles you begin your training on the floor and gradually move upright. Anyone experienced with this concept?

Salam hangat,
Bram

[DasaMan]

Does anyone know of a traditional silat school that uses mats? I have never heard of mats used in traditional silat...

Well, my comment was in the context of jujutsu club Just to emphasize 'no mats, no big deal.'

But back to thread about the floor. I have heard that in some traditional silat styles you begin your training on the floor and gradually move upright. Anyone experienced with this concept?

Well, I suppose the BJJ-ers here will raise their hands... no silat there, but still, though...

[Ranggalana]

Do you do that in BJJ, do you begin on the floor and then move upright?

Thanx,
Ranggalana.

[DasaMan]

Do you do that in BJJ, do you begin on the floor and then move upright?

I am not a BJJist, but yes, BJJ does put emphasis on the floor. For pretty much a typical BJJ curriculum progression, you can look at the US Army Combatives document.

You can find the document here:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-25-150/index.html

Once again, not silat, more wrestling, but strictly speaking of beginning on the floor and moving upright, there you go.

There is more than meets the eye in this instance, but the discussion is best left to the Judo/Jujutsu thread.

[Satria]

But back to thread about the floor. I have heard that in some traditional silat styles you begin your training on the floor and gradually move upright. Anyone experienced with this concept?

Yep.. we do (As you knew!  )

Eventually there is no distinction between the ground and upright, there just "IS".

Cheers,
Martin

[DasaMan]

Eventually there is no distinction between the ground and upright, there just "IS".

And therein you have that silat edge, either you're in, or you're out

Most contemporary fighting styles seem to make there edge by creating distinctions on phases and ranges of combat.

[Josh]

It might be nice to include the immense potential benefit of learning to fall in descriptions of silat that are presented to those who are less familiar with Indonesian arts.  How does everyone think we should go about it?  In my experience, if you tell people they will be rolling and falling without mats within six months, they find this intimidating rather than attractive, even though it is the most important thing they could learn from the perspective of personal safety.

In my club, we roll without mats from DAY ONE. We're just that pennyless.

Amazing turnover rate we have, though strangely those that stay tend to be... women.

It is interesting that the women stay.  We have a difficult time retaining women in our group, but in Europe and California there are more women than men in our school.

I like that the traditional styles don't use mats, I think it makes all the difference, and maybe that is one of the big advantages of being traditional.  What do you think?
Josh

[Ranggalana]

.......
It is interesting that the women stay.  We have a difficult time retaining women in our group, but in Europe and California there are more women than men in our school.

I like that the traditional styles don't use mats, I think it makes all the difference, and maybe that is one of the big advantages of being traditional.  What do you think?
Josh

Hehehe, maybe in Europe and California the men are more handsome than other places, Josh?

I like not using mats, but I have questions about the label traditional. For example, Josh, are we traditional? I think that in PGB we are both traditional and modern at the same time. We have standardized short and long movements, and we have a Japanese influenced belt system, which is a sign of a modern silat organization. But inside that modern organization, we have space for the more traditional, one-to-one, and particular training, which is of course, traditional.

I remember when I learned my falls and rolls, I developed big egg like, bleeding and bruised lumps on my back that hurt alot. All 40 or so members of my class were in tears for weeks. I agree that faling and rolling are perhaps the most life saving moves silat can prepare you with. I remember long ago when I had just started to study silat I had a very bad motorbike accident and managed to experience it as if in slow motion and I rolled in to the fall and did not hurt myself at all. At that time, in real life I still found it hard to do a roll, but in an emergency, there was no problem.

Martin, would you mind elaborating a little more so that I understand better your concept of moving up from the floor, please? I think it might be interesting to other members of the forum too, as it does make sense, I think.

Salam hangat,
Ranggalana