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Author Topic: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"  (Read 31768 times)

crashed brain

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #15 on: 09/07/2009 16:40 »
I am really sure Bang Husin, Kang MJ and uda SK have developed the philosophy of Seliwa further after my departure to Germany..Glad somebody has explained it here..

Antara has explained it very well the basic philosophy of Seliwa, what the connection among the Jurus' are, and what Seliwa requires to its disciples. In other thread of Seliwa Workshop somebody has also pointed the global framework of the usage of weaponry such as blade (golok), knife and a empty hand fight of seliwa.

Personally, I am more interested to learn the empty hand fight of Seliwa. We will not bring weapons all the time, right? Not trying to be so arrogant about it, but weapons in Seliwa is only a prolongation of hand.. nothing more nothing less..

About the absorption of outside style including karate, I thought bang Husin has made it very well to blend other techniques into Seliwa. They enriched Seliwa and bring it to another level. You can see outside influence yet you can not claim the technique is not Seliwa original. It blended very smoothly I may say. Bang Husin allows me freely to learn other syles. It will only develop further the disciple, for example the understanding of techniques and its application. He even took me to other Gurus... lol

While I admire Seliwa for its rich philosophy and techniques, Antara and I had a long discussion about Silat in other forum. It brought me one conclusion, there is no style bests another.. 

crashed brain

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #16 on: 09/07/2009 20:54 »
After reading my post again, I felt I must explain a little bit more about the absorption of other technique into Seliwa.

Please bear in mind that I differentiate Jurus and technique..

If you see the jurus, it is Seliwa original.. Bang Husin may or may not add other style's jurus, but it is original.. He modified the jurus he got from his father only a little.

But the techniques and its applications are a blend mixture of what Bang Husin has got from his journey in silat practice. We can see many techniques originated from Cingkrik, Serak, Cikalong, Cimande and many other style blend into one mixture of Seliwa style. And if you are trained by his disciples like kang MJ and Santri Kinasih, you will have yet another form of mixture as such ... lol-
Those two honorable men are silat master even before learning Seliwa from Bang Husin...  [top]

And when Antara joined the band.. I am sure Seliwa will grow exceptionally bigger.. x-))

Taufan

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #17 on: 10/07/2009 13:40 »
Amiieen... keep it up guys  [top]
Wassalam,
TP

Antara

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #18 on: 10/07/2009 15:29 »
The last sentence of Bang Brain... you just need to change the tone, and it would have different meaning entirely... :-P

To my unverified knowledge, Uda SK and Kang MJ became Bang Husin disciples after they performed the typical initiation ritual .... a fight between capable fighters .... It is very much like the old days when the defeated (providing they survived) learn from the victor. So it is real deal with the three... I leave the detail to Bang Brain to tell (or Uda SK and Kang MJ themselves). It is a very interesting story.

As for me, I started Seliwa because it matches the only time slot my wife would permit me to leave home  x-)) ... so it is completely different story between me and the two seniors.
Fairy tales don't tell children that dragons are real...
Children always know that dragons are real...
Fairy tales only tell that dragons can be slain...

Antara

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #19 on: 10/07/2009 15:33 »
Talking about Seliwa being hybrid style, I believe that disciples are not learning just the style, they actually trying to absorb the master’s knowledge and experience. Two masters of the same style could have different wisdom to share, as much as two disciples that learn from the same master could end up as different kind of accomplished master themselves. Hence, while teaching exactly the same movements he learns from his father, Bang Husin bears with him his own knowledge, experience, interpretation and conclusion...

I am writing this journal to record exactly that, insight I get while learning Seliwa... and have been fortunate that Uda SK and Bang Brain are willing to share their insights too.

Still drafting about Pu’un... hopefully I can post it here soon.
Fairy tales don't tell children that dragons are real...
Children always know that dragons are real...
Fairy tales only tell that dragons can be slain...

crashed brain

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #20 on: 10/07/2009 20:03 »
They, I mean MJ and SK, became the disciples of Bang Husin not because a real fight...
It was after Bang Husin showed them the fascinating Seliwa style. They knew Bang Husin long before, but bang Husin always kept Seliwa a secret... hehehe...

what made them wowed and became the disciples are their secret... and you'll know it when you finished the lesson.  :w

Antara

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #21 on: 10/07/2009 21:25 »
Ssstttt.... Bang Brain... you're ruining the plot... >:(

Hundred years from now people won't know the real story... only the good one :P, that's how legends were born... x-))
 
don't you see Seliwa's history is too plain, short and honest??  :D
Fairy tales don't tell children that dragons are real...
Children always know that dragons are real...
Fairy tales only tell that dragons can be slain...

Antara

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #22 on: 12/07/2009 11:13 »
Pu’un

When talking about jurus, I used to imagine various movements arranged into a long form… the more ‘what-if’ scenario planted into particular jurus, the longer it will become. Seliwa takes different approach with its pu’un. In pu’un you can only find one to three movements repeated seven times. Well, it depends on how you count movements, of course. I count one for any movement(s) that can end a fight, so a block followed with a punch count as one. If we consider those fight-ending movements as segment, a typical segment in pu’un takes only three to five seconds to perform… hence the longest pu’un is only thirty five seconds long.

I learned the first three pu’uns in just one day, not because I am genius (though I would love to call myself so :P) but because they are so simple... at least on the surface.
Fairy tales don't tell children that dragons are real...
Children always know that dragons are real...
Fairy tales only tell that dragons can be slain...

Antara

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #23 on: 12/07/2009 11:20 »
First pu’un

In first pu’un, the core movements consist of grab followed by straight punch to mid section. Simple as it may seems, but the teaching behind it is quite demanding. Firstly, though the movement utilizes stepping forward to deliver committed punch, most of the weight must remain in rear leg. Secondly, the punching arm must immediately be relaxed after reaching impact, thus regain sensitivity and ready to anticipate anything. The relaxed arm combined with nearly weightless forward leg will enable us to react quickly, a state commonly called ‘kosong’ (empty) in silat.

People watching Seliwa practice may imitate the movement of first pu’un easily, but without knowing the concept underlying it, they would only learn three repetitive punches.

Second pu’un
I only learn the principle of first pu’un after several weeks, and still struggling to decode the second pu’un. It is straight punch to the head, followed by two punches to mid section. I wonder if there is something more in this other than a common trick to strike at different point? Time will tell… or preferably either Bang Husin or my seniors will  :P
(All right, all right… I should count my own thoroughness too… [pant])
Fairy tales don't tell children that dragons are real...
Children always know that dragons are real...
Fairy tales only tell that dragons can be slain...

Antara

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #24 on: 12/07/2009 11:32 »
Third pu’un

If the first two pu’un may looks like Shotokan Karate to me, this third pu’un is a great welcome to Betawi flavor. Punch is delivered palm up instead of down, supporting arm close to elbow of the punching arm instead of withdrawn to the side of body, and upper torso sways with the technique instead of rigid erected spine of the first two pu’un. Finally I can hear ‘Ini dia si Jali-jali’ ringing inside my ears.

To my observation, third pu’un is the opposite of first pu’un. If relaxation in first pu’un enable us to anticipate anything coming from attacking side of our body (you extend your right arm forward, someone push it to your left), the third pu’un react to anything coming from defending side of our body (your right arm forward, someone try to reach your left ribs), or linear strike to your solar plexus.

This pu’un also incorporate footwork unseen in the jurus. I cannot tell how, but when practicing this pu’un with partner, I always intuitively include evading footwork, of which Bang Husin agrees. I wonder if the swaying in jurus is a mean to indicate footwork or at least shift in weight? If it is, then it is really a sophisticated invention by our ancestors. Something we could learn unconsciously (and enjoyable too, if you are into dancing).

For the moment, I see second pu’un as vertical work up and down, while first and third pu’un work us horizontally, something coming from left or right side.

Third pu’un also has the same feature as FMA in blocking blade attack. Apparently this is the first blade lesson in Seliwa done empty handedly... or simply that (any old) silat always take bladed weapon into account...
Fairy tales don't tell children that dragons are real...
Children always know that dragons are real...
Fairy tales only tell that dragons can be slain...

Antara

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #25 on: 12/07/2009 11:39 »
Fourth pu’un

I consider this pu’un a good brain gym other than its martial value, arm reaches far to opposite side. This is the first pu’un that utilize obvious fighting footwork.

I interpret this pu’un as close quarter combat work. It contains block, grab and tap at elbow distance, combined with silat typical leg tricks such us stepping onto enemy’s feet, engkol (again, what is it in English?), short sweep and low kick to ankle.

So, after you work with your opponent in long distance with the first three pu’un, we now deal with him closely. I can see pattern of teachings here.


Fifth pu’un

The opening is like third pu’un, except that instead of trying to punch or strike opponents weak points as in third pu’un, fifth pu’un deals with arm or finger (ouch!) breaking. Apparently the fight has gone too close that we don’t have enough space to deliver powerful strike, so we play with joints.

An interesting feature for me is that other than memorizing techniques, this pu’un deals very much with anticipating momentum or energy, a tool to train our body sensitivity. I learn this when practicing the buah (fruit) with partner, I was forced to blend with my partner’s momentum in order to execute the technique properly. Remind me of my aikido days. ;D
Fairy tales don't tell children that dragons are real...
Children always know that dragons are real...
Fairy tales only tell that dragons can be slain...

Antara

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #26 on: 12/07/2009 13:04 »
Sixth pu’un

What else left in a fight after gone so close that we need another pu’un?

Well, since going down to the ground is not favorable in street fight, breaking apart is an important skill to learn. Sixth pu’un features large footwork and hand sweeping movement to position us at distance with the opponent... of course by doing damage in the process that we don’t need to continue the fight anymore, or at least not from square one. This also works as trick to move to opponent’s blind spot while fighting at close distance.

General comment about Pu'un...

In Seliwa students learn jurus with its applications at the same time, so students wouldn’t do jurus blindly without knowing its fighting purpose or principle. Just like many silat styles, the juruses in Seliwa are so generic that they work very well as mnemonic device for many techniques already learnt, but nearly useless if studied as stand alone subject.

The isi (content) are taught together with the bongkar (counter-application). It may seems impractical at the first time, especially when the isi and bongkar involve completely different movements from those in jurus (I mean, explicitly). However, once I feel comfortable with the juruses (particularly after managed to finish all pu'uns), those isi and bongkar just flow naturally. Apparently, even though the movements are different, but the principles remain the same. Also, an isi could take principle from more than one jurus, so it is important to take all pu'uns as an integrated concept.

Now that I have been starting waving golok around, I found that the pu’uns are also good mnemonic for blade-work. They are indeed the foundation of Seliwa, while the next stage, kembang, works on the details and specifically crafted for blade-work.
Fairy tales don't tell children that dragons are real...
Children always know that dragons are real...
Fairy tales only tell that dragons can be slain...

Mantrijeron14

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #27 on: 14/07/2009 12:57 »
. And if you are trained by his disciples like kang MJ and Santri Kinasih, you will have yet another form of mixture as such ... lol-
Those two honorable men are silat master even before learning Seliwa from Bang Husin... 

Hayaaa.... you are really exaggerating this dab CB!! Me, myself and I agree with mas Ery's quote: Martial arts student forever. Mastery is still beyond my conception.It is the process we like most. I accept the result as a divine decree multiply by my piece of awkward brainwork.  :'( Nurturing the passion is the hardest part dab! For Dimas Antara, I put additional factor: Spouse's permit!!! ;D

Regardless the story of my initial learning (does everybody feel this is closer to legend-building character? [lucu]), I bowed down to Bang Husin mastery for its unique paradigm of the style. Tricky and manipulating. Maen Jujur or simply called committed strikes are well anticipated yet manipulated. When fighting is orchestrated on one's dominant strategy to another.....the probability to finish the game is on hand (we're still talking about Bang Husin skill here... not mine  :-\)

Wassalam,
"Gerak tak lebih cepat dari pikiran, hati tahu lebih dulu."

Antara

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #28 on: 15/07/2009 13:09 »
People say; when you study blade, prepare to get cut.
Well, I just got the historical moment this morning, my first cut.  [yahoo] [yahoo] [yahoo] [yahoo]

 [kecut]
 ...

 [kecut]
 ...

 [kecut]
 ...

But it is because a sharp spot somewhere on the sheath, not because of the golok. Does it count? ???
Fairy tales don't tell children that dragons are real...
Children always know that dragons are real...
Fairy tales only tell that dragons can be slain...

ulil

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Re: My Days with Golok Betawi "Seliwa"
« Reply #29 on: 16/07/2009 13:44 »
jadi kaya "Silat Diary"

hebat,
seandainya yang lain juga seperti ini, akhir kejadiannya akan luar biasa

 

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