Alu

[Sabrang kidul]

 

Sabrang Kidul!  No that's not what I meant...  I wrote that post rather quickly and could probably have written that sentence better. 

No worries mate, thanks for the clarification. Have some sleep, I fell like taking one too 

Cheers
O'

[Ranggalana]

.......
P.S. Other PCP weapons that don't yet have threads started about them are the Pedang, the Kanching Stick, the Cebang, the Pisau, the Karambit, the Renchong, the Culrit, dirt, and the serong.  We can all expect to see Bram start threads about them in the near future. 

P.S.S. I apologize to the moderators and forum members for my harshness in this post.  I've been silent on these matters for the past few weeks, but it seems increasingly apparent to me that silence = weakness to Bram.   

Hello Michael,

I will ignore your flaming attitude and tell you the truth:

Did you know that I think the alu silat in PCP is a) legitimate and b) very worthwhile to learn because, as I said, the alu is on the verge of extinction. I cannot say how much I respect and support PCP's efforts to keep this art alive. And once you say that the art is Trumbu and the weapon is halu (alu) then .... there is absolutely nothing wrong with your schools representation of the alu and the art that uses it as a weapon. Do you get that : YOUR SCHOOL IS PRESERVING A RARE AND ENDANGERED ART IN THE USE OF THE ALU.

When I write that it is not actually a weapon, I also say that some silat styles use it as a weapon. However the original and everyday use of it is not as a weapon, different to a pedang, for example, which is made for the sole intention of killing.

PCP teaches alot of weapons ... and the only missrepresentation I see is in keris and kujang. These are also slight, really, you keep saying your keris knowledge is Jawanese, but it would make more sense if it were Malay, especially when moves are explained in Malay language rather than Jawanese. And the traditional kujang is probably not as tradtitional as you thought but that is also no one's fault, just a missunderstanding in transmission. Don't get me wrong I am not accusing anyone of lying, just that historical facts point to a long period when the kujang was out of production, and the rest which you can read on the kujang thread.

Hope this makes my opinion clear concerning Michael's sensitive school and the use of the alu as a weapon.

Salam hangat,
Ranggalana

[Michael Lee]

Well thank you for the kind words Bram!  I didn't see myself as being overly sensitive... but it would appear I stand corrected.

I'm glad to see the change in your tone.  Recall, it wasn't to long ago that you thought we had made it up and that we were.... well whatever.... I have no desire to rehash the old discussion. 

Thank you for acknowledging that we are preserving the old ways.  That's exactly what our point of view is.  Also, I apologize for jumping the gun.   

I'd like to get back to the subject of this thread.  According to what Pendekar Mama has taught us, the Trumbu system comes directly from Embah Kahir.  P. Mama has given us 4 Jurus that are mostly done from a VERY low to the ground crouching position.  If nothing else, they serve as a WONDERFUL leg exercise.    But obviously, there is much to be learned from these Jurus. 

I'm curious, does anyone else who has experience with Halu (or Alu) arts have jurus as well?  If so, would you be willing to share about them with the forum?   

Eric, do you have any experience with the Halu stick?

Also, did I guess right that the difference in spelling (halu vs alu) is because what we learned comes from Sunda? 

One last thing, having never been to Indonesia, until reading this forum, I was never really aware of the importance of the differences between Sundanese culture and Javanese culture.  I knew that our arts were primarily Sundanese based, but I had never realized just how important the distinction between the two was.  A good example that I can relate to would be if a foreigner mistakenly assumed that because I'm an American, that I must be a Lakers fan or maybe Yankees fan.  Or that because I'm from Detroit, why is it that I don't own a Japanese car?  These regional differences are obvious to locals and anyone who has some experience here.  But to any outsider with limited or no experience, they are easily misunderstood.

So is it true with us... Besides Pendekar Sanders, there are only about half a dozen of us that have been to Indonesia....even those that have (besides Ger Geisen), it has only been for one or two short visits.  We are doing our best to honor the heritage from whence our beloved Silat came, but we make some obvious mistakes!    :'(

Anyways, my point here is that mistaken details of Sunda vs Java vs other Indonesian cultures, are "our mistakes."  "Our mistakes" meaning the students of Pendekar Sanders,  Russian’s, Optimus’s, and mine.  We post here of our own free will and accord.  Though we get much of the factual information from Sanders, we often make mistakes in translation.  Indeed, I have many emails from Sanders spelling out exactly the same type of errors that Bram has pointed out.  "Hi Mike! The power genie doll is from Sartono, not Cimande village" or, " Hello Michael! The Cebang we do comes from Mas Jud's children, not Pendekar Mama." etc.. etc...  As an outsider, these details are small and largely insignificant.  Insignificant because I've learned them secondhand and have no direct experience with them.  Also insignificant because the origin is of interest to me, but the effectiveness of the techniques is where my real passion lies.  However, my desire to be as accurate as possible pushes me to do better.  Also, the more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.  As such, I know understand why it's so infuriating to some that I would mistakenly represent something that's Kejawan in origin as Sundanese.  So thanks to this board for teaching me that too! 

Again, just to be clear, the mistakes of attribution are mine and ours(ours... meaning the students).  Sanders knows very well the details and he's constantly correcting us.  If he didn't live 2000 miles away, I'd wouldn't make anywhere near the same amount of mistakes.    Just doing the best I can with what I have.... 

Thanks for reading and thank you for helping me learn so much!

Warm regards,
Michael

[dsbasuki]

...Also, the more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.  As such, I know understand why it's so infuriating to some that I would mistakenly represent something that's Kejawan in origin as Sundanese.  So thanks to this board for teaching me that too! 

Again, just to be clear, the mistakes of attribution are mine (ours... meaning the students).

Thanks for reading and thank you for helping me learn so much!

Salam to All,
There you go... Finally, you grasped the real-value of silat! (bold letters were added by me)  If we want to drink a cup of tea, we must bring an empty cup, then we can drink more. Knowledge is like sea-water, the more you drink it, the more you get thirsty.

Salam...

[pekir]

......... until reading this forum, I was never really aware of the importance of the differences between Sundanese culture and Javanese culture.  I knew that our arts were primarily Sundanese based, but I had never realized just how important the distinction between the two was.  .........

Warm regards,
Michael

Hi Micheal,

Using the example of being an American is not the same as being a Lakers fan to describe to the difference between Sunda and Java is not even close. Maybe the difference between cowboys and indians comes closer

Pekir

[Michael Lee]

Point taken Patrick!  Thanks for putting into terms I can vividly understand. 

@ Dsbasuki....  I like that analogy very much.  Off topic, but I think it more aptly applies to my personal growing relationship with God.  For a longtime, I suffered from what I now call "Spirituality difficency syndrome. *"  As I've come to know God in my adult years (adult meaning the last 4 years.. ), the "thirst" I have to be closer to him has grown. 

Now obviously, unlike saltwater, filling myself up with more and more of God's spirit will not eventually kill me, but I still like the comparrison because it clearly illustrates the growing "thirst" to be closer to God.   

Ok... back on topic!

Michael




* Dr. Abraham J. Twerski 
   http://www.ou.org/oupr/2003/rtwer03.htm